the" creator book "helps us to see how many of the bibles predictions came true.. for instance on pg 106 we find,.
"consider this point.
isaiah wrote about babylons final situation:babylon the decoration of kingdoms, the beauty of the pride of the chaldeans, must become as when god overthrew sodom and gomorrah.she will never be inhabited, nor will she reside for generation after generation".
Also it is said that often you cannot understand prophecy untill after the event.
That's my father's line. When I ask him "Whatever happened with the King of the North after the collapse of the Soviet Union? Wasn't he supposed to last until Armaggedon?", he says that the King will change his identity but we have to wait for future developments.
Again what purpose does that serve?
The Society can always claim that that they got it wrong the first time because they were running ahead of time.
the" creator book "helps us to see how many of the bibles predictions came true.. for instance on pg 106 we find,.
"consider this point.
isaiah wrote about babylons final situation:babylon the decoration of kingdoms, the beauty of the pride of the chaldeans, must become as when god overthrew sodom and gomorrah.she will never be inhabited, nor will she reside for generation after generation".
Evidently the most unfulfilled prophecy was the coming of the Messiah for Israel. It took the book of Hebrews to try to convince the Jewish that the "Messiah" they got was actually what Jeho-bah had promised in the Old Testament.
The second most unfulfilled prophecy is the Second Coming of Christ. Many ex-JW scorn the WT teaching that the "last days" started counting in 1914. Apparently it makes more sense to them that the "last days" have been running for 2000 years ...
JJ
"higher" education not needed in god's new order.
in the june 8, 1967 issue, the awake!
magazine printed an article on pages 3-8 entitled "second thoughts about a college education.
That was my point. What the average JW considers "the Truth" is whatever appears in the latest magazine. You should know this if you had ever been a Witness.
"higher" education not needed in god's new order.
in the june 8, 1967 issue, the awake!
magazine printed an article on pages 3-8 entitled "second thoughts about a college education.
Avengers,
The WTS has changed its attitud towards high education, at least in print. I went to college while I was still a JW in the 90's and no one could openly object to this. There was gossip, of course, but they had no support from the Society's publications and I could easily shut them up. So who are you trying to persuade by quoting magazines from the 60's? Any JW who reads your post will say "You see, apostates are always using old publications to misrepresent 'the truth'"
You sound as if you have never been a JW. If that's the case and you're one of those born-againers looking for souls to save, I'd kindly suggest going to preach somewhere else.
i'm at a definite crossroad in my life right now and i don't know which direction to turn.. for my entire life i've been taught to believe in one thing but now i'm seeing things that i never knew where there before.
i find it very disturbing that there has been so many predictions the wts has made in the past that failed to come true.
also the bouncing back and forth on certain doctrines make me question my beliefs.. but on the other hand i can't ignore things like the fact the organization is growing while other religions are on the decline.
Leander,
There's little I can add to the other answers. What I can see as your biggest problem is what Biblexaminer said: you're still seeing the world you with JW eyes. If you go on that way, the next wrong question you're going to ask is: "OK, if the JW aren't the true religion, then which one is it?" And you will end up in some fundamentalist born-again christian group.
So my advice is: take it easy, take your time, read, and learn how to think logically. We've all been there. There's no need to rush, because Armaggedon is not coming.
Best wishes,
J.J.
i was thinking about some of the comments in the bible where god had regrets.
gen. 6:6 does this mean he felt it was a mistake to make humans?.
when he decreed that nineveh would be destroyed and then changed his mind after they repented, would it have been a mistake if he had destroyed them before they had time to repent?.
It seems the bible makes God almost human at times.
Exactly, this is always the case with "J", one of the five writers (or schools of writers) of the Penthateuch. Gen 6:6 was written by J, as chapter 2 of Gen was (where you can see Yahweh walking in the Garden of Eden). J makes God much more anthropomorphic than the other writers.
I'd suggest you take a look at the book "Who wrote the Bible" by Friedman.
JJ
i have a problem with the whole beginning of the bible.. if i was an angel of god, and i was only exposed to really positive ways of life, god was 100% positive.. the last thing i would think about is turning my back on him.. where did lucifer get his negative way of thinking from???.
surely, if you are in god's company, it's gonna rub off on you that being nice is the way of life!!!.
it does not make sense that he should turn into the absolute evil that he is!!!!.
Hello JW72,
The idea of an evil god in opposition to the good one originated in Persia and apparently found its way into Jewish religion during the Babilonian exile. Note that Satan makes his appearance relatively late in the Bible, not until the book of Job (which was not written by Moses, as none of the other books attributed to him were).
Also, Genesis does not say that Satan talked to Eve. It says that the serpent spoke to her. That this serpent was Satan in disguise is a later interpretation of the author of Revelation.
IMHO, this discussion board is not going to be the best source of information for questions like these. Why don't you go to a library or bookstore and get some books written by serious scholars? Christianity and religious studies are 2000 years old and many valuable things have been written. Don't waste your time trying to re-invent the wheel.
Hope this helps
JJ
PS: I like your new pic. And I was born in '72 too.
i found this open letter hilarious, and certainly not off-topic for us .... jj.
dr. laura schlessinger is a us radio personality.
recently, she said that as an observant orthodox jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to leviticus 18:22 & cannot be condoned under any circumstance.
I found this open letter hilarious, and certainly not off-topic for us ...
JJ
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Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a US radio personality. Recently, she said that as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 & cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a US resident.
Dear Dr. Laura,
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, & I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws & how to follow them.
1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day & age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male & female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it's a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some room for negotiation here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse & blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them (Lev.24:10-16)? Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do w/people who sleep with their in-laws (Lev. 20:14)?
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal & unchanging.
Your devoted disciple & adoring fan,
Richard Wilbur
all this stuff about dfing and the repentance shown by those who want to get back in and the contempt shown towards them by the flock thereafter got me thinking: is this always the case?
can a reinstated df ever be promoted?
could they ever reach elder or higher?
About "adulterous marriages": I understand the guy will not get "privileges" in the Congregation (not even handling the microphones) until his former wife gets married again or dies. At least those were the rules 6 years ago when I left.
There was an (in)famous case in Argentina about 20 years ago, when one of the Branch Overseers (called Di Luca) left his stone-cold frigid wife (Eugenia Sasarej) and got away with a (female) special pioneer. He was reinstated after 7 years but has no privileges because Eugenia has stayed single (of course, no one will marry her after all the rumors that were rolled). The funny thing is that Di Luca is still being kind of half-shunned by the "spiritual" old-timers.
~Joseph Joachim
PS: I love you Eugenia
The funny thing is that Rutherford had to do away with Chapman himself later on because ... er... he had "a wandering eye" (and not precisely for the sisters).
